Proposed Stock replacement - the "Street" Category

SCCA technical discussions and classing discussions.

Moderators: flogger, SilverYota, JimR, Thorox

Post Reply
Bullitt2954
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:54 pm
Location: Jane, MO
Contact:

Proposed Stock replacement - the "Street" Category

Post by Bullitt2954 » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:06 pm

For like all two of you who have not yet heard on a forum, BB, or read the Fastrack News: there is a proposal out to replace "Stock" with a "Street" category. The biggest, most-controversial part of it is the Elimination of "R-Compound" tires (Hoosier A6/R6, Kumho V710/720, BFG R1, etc.) and instituting a UTQG Treadwear-rating of 140+ for all [Street Category] tires, beginning-with and through the 2014 Competition Year. Thence, with a UTQG Treadwear of 200+ with the commencement of the 2015 Competition year, and the "Law of The Land" therafter.

There are also may allowances proposed in-addition, not the least of which is caster/camber plate allowances, swaybars "free" at both ends of the car, and several other, slightly-more-minor allowances.

See the complete Fastrack News Here: http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... -april.pdf

The Solo section, pertaining to what I've written above, here (begins page 7): http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... l-solo.pdf

A SoloMatters article outlining the proposed changes can be found here: http://www.solomatters.com/2013/03/stre ... explained/

And finally, the place to go to submit a letter and actually have YOUR voice heard on this matter (for, against, indifferent, bacon) right over Here: http://sebscca.com/

Murmur and Discuss.
-Scott Creech, #54STF - Hyundai Veloster "The BluMeanie!"

Parfois, on fait pas semblant

"The key to happiness is; If you cannot learn to do something well; learn to enjoy doing it poorly..."

User avatar
craigb
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Asbury, MO

Post by craigb » Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:53 am

I'm sure even if the UTQG is restricted, the tire manufacturers will come up with autocross specific tires.
Craig

Bullitt2954
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:54 pm
Location: Jane, MO
Contact:

Post by Bullitt2954 » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:10 pm

Do you think that the current crop of "140" tires was made SPECIFICALLY for just SCCA Autocross? Or that a "ringer" tire will be made that will actually be a "40" with "140" markings? These tires are sold to the PUBLIC - not just to Autocrosser/Trackday Junkies - the PUBLIC would never stand for a tire that cost them $300+ apiece and only gave them 2000 miles (or less!) of street-driving, even on a "street" alignment.

Andy Hollis participated in a recent "unveiling", and he said that essentially the "200" rating of the new BFG Rival was no BS - several drivers flogged the tires all day long, and even then barely "hurt" them.

SCCA Solo is only ONE series (and not even the "largest") these tire-manufacturers must cater-to. The Rival (and the rest of the "new crop" of 200+ tires) was not made with us cone-dodgers in mind - but that still does not mean we cannot use them as such.

I believe the SEB merely used the "opportunity" of the launch of the new 200+ tires to simultaneously put-forth their ideas of "taking stock back to stock".

It's only a proposal, anyway - EVERYONE: if you've got an Opinion on this (Yea, Nay, Yawn, Bacon) go to www.sebscca.com and tell them about it. Takes as little time to do that as it does to reply and refute or agree with anything I've said here - and they DO read and consider everything they get via the webpage (they just don't get very much).

I sent MY letter about the proposal in - if you think your opinion may be opposed to what you believe mine may be - you'd better get over there and send your letter in to "counteract" my "vote".....
-Scott Creech, #54STF - Hyundai Veloster "The BluMeanie!"

Parfois, on fait pas semblant

"The key to happiness is; If you cannot learn to do something well; learn to enjoy doing it poorly..."

springfielddyno
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:52 am
Contact:

Post by springfielddyno » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:23 pm

Yes. There will be a ringer or two created. Sorry

User avatar
craigb
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Asbury, MO

Post by craigb » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:28 am

Sorry for the late reply. Haven't been near a computer for a couple weeks.

I think a spec compound tire will be created specifically for auto-x. Might not be exactly a ringer, but will take full advantage of the rules (and probably push them a bit). That's just the nature of racing.

I personally like the idea anyway. Might allow more people to be competitive and more likely to come into the sport if they don't think they need a set of $800+ tires.
Craig

User avatar
JimR
Posts: 1204
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:56 pm
Location: Rogers, AR

Post by JimR » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:02 pm

The newest street tires have become very race.

Solo isn't a big enough market alone to have an autocross-specific ringer tire, though. I think we're safe in assuming that the Hoosier A6 R-compound deep dive in Stock class won't happen again.

An "A" compound street tire with autocross-specific heat ranges wouldn't make much sense to produce, and it would go straight on an exclusion list, anyway. Tire manufacturers already face price pressures from commodities, logistics, widespread competition, and supporting an exponentially bigger variety of tire sizes. They aren't going to make a street tire just for us like Hoosier makes an A6, which is a race-only niche offering.

There are series with a minimum treadwear rating like drifting, Pro Touring, Goodguys, time trials, Chump, LeMons, etc., that are either high profile/big spend or very popular. The arbitrary treadwear number gets a brand's tires sold in more places at 200.

The endurance clunker racing and cruise-in muscle car competitions require some longevity, but more importantly, these Extreme Summer tires are still getting sold as street tires to any goon who might call a lawyer before the tow truck or ambulance arrives.

Ultimately, I think we're seeing a renaissance of of technology: very high grip from a street tire that can last five-figure odometer mileage. Tire technology has not been at a standstill. This mix of capability and longevity has really cut into support for R-comps.
Jim Rowland - Your friendly OMR volunteer at large
'92 Sentra SE-R / '15 FR-S / '04 Silverado HD

User avatar
JimR
Posts: 1204
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:56 pm
Location: Rogers, AR

Post by JimR » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:41 pm

A related thought is that tire durometer doesn't necessarily correlate with grip. A lot of the new street tire magic is in the sidewalls, tread block arrangement, internal belt construction, and rubber compound itself. There's been a lot of development in this area.

Right now the BFG Rival seems to be the one that used every trick in the book. It may not deliver a lot more peak grip than its competitors, but it was designed for a wider peak grip "happy place" with lots of driver feedback. Make a tire good everywhere, all the time, and it will feel more like you're getting R-compound bang for your street tire buck. Thus more interest in "Street" category.

Wet (not standing water) performance doesn't always require best water evacuation, either. It just means the rubber compound performs consistently when cool versus hot competition temps. I think that lets some of these newer extreme street tires like the Rival get away with less tread void space. Long-term, white-out monsoonal performance isn't in high demand from performance car drivers, so it's not prioritized.
Jim Rowland - Your friendly OMR volunteer at large
'92 Sentra SE-R / '15 FR-S / '04 Silverado HD

springfielddyno
Posts: 347
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:52 am
Contact:

Post by springfielddyno » Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:19 pm

In a competitive field, I think one of perhaps 5-6 different tires will be required to win... At nationals, they will need to be pratically new and perhaps shaved...

don't get me wrong... I like the direction.... It's still cheaper and much longer lasting than R's...

I wouldn't underestimate solo... I view it as the win on sunday, sell on monday kind of deal... Even more so with the web... tires get a reputation, and wanna be racers buy based on that. There's lots of those guys...

I could like the new "stock"...

User avatar
JimR
Posts: 1204
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:56 pm
Location: Rogers, AR

Post by JimR » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:19 am

Further proposals of Street category refinement are posted in the May FasTrack.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/ass ... y-solo.pdf

The "Street Prepared Lite" prep is scrapped, which I think is a little more tidy. The most vocal group wanting to retain DOT R-Compounds was Super Stock, which is mostly cars with good suspension geometry, lots of power, and no real price advantage in using street tires. The proposal addresses this with a SSR class that retains DOT-R's, and the rest of the category going to street tires.
Jim Rowland - Your friendly OMR volunteer at large
'92 Sentra SE-R / '15 FR-S / '04 Silverado HD

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests